Hold Your Hudson Horses, Dan Patrick

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 9, 2004 1:44 PM PST in News

The deal with the Cardinals has not happened yet. But it's still out there.

It did seem like a weird fit, unless it was a three-way deal and the A's were getting a quality starter/bullpen arm/2nd baseman.

Billy Beane is going to be the center if the universe this weekend. Just the way he likes it.

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This is the opening round

Any teams interested in dealing with Beane are going to have to up their offers to match or surpass the players in the St. Louis/Atlanta mix. This is just the opening bid and Beane is going to want every last bit of value.

by grover on Dec 9, 2004 1:50 PM PST reply actions

as we've said before

Huddy only goes in a monster deal. Beane now has everybody in a frenzy -- except himself. Be prepared for surprises.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if Huddy ISN"T traded this weekend. Unless someone comes up with a monster deal that nets us a bat AND starting pitching, why get rid of Huddy?

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2004 5:10 PM PST up reply actions

What would the Yankees give us for Huddy?

Giambi and who else?

by Rob @ Athletics Nation on Dec 9, 2004 10:14 PM PST up reply actions

who else

why, Sheffield of course

When I look at it, I think if I'd been healthy, or this year, not a dumbass at the end of the season, we would have won so many more games---MM

by Satchmo22 on Dec 10, 2004 5:14 AM PST up reply actions

Funny :)

Although I'd take both of them at the league minimum salary.

by LD on Dec 10, 2004 12:46 PM PST up reply actions

calm down everybody

You have to trust Beane on this. I read all of these comments, some pure fantasy, others of which are pure speculation. Beane knows what he is doing, and what he has to do, if in fact it would take $14 million a year to keep Hudson, then he has to go. The A's did not lose last year because they lacked hitting, they scored 793 runs, in 2002 they scored 800 and won 97 games, and if Chavez had not been out 6 weeks they would have scored more than 800 this year. They lost because Redmond never had a quality start in Oakland, Mulder didn't have a quality start in Sept, and few after the All Star break, and the bull pen cost the team double digit save opportunities. Make no mistake losing Hudson is a major loss, but so was Giambi, Tejada, Folke et al., and we survived all of them. That is what is so enjoyable about rooting for the A's, we have to do more with less. Beane will get a pitcher or two out of this, and maybe a player, the A's will be fine, and we as A's fans will move on. If the A's trade Hudson he has to have a front line pitcher in the deal, and that he will do, I have no doubt. But of course, he will not trade pitcher for pitcher, they will get other players, and that is when Beane is at his best in my opinion. When he tries to rehabilitate old veterans is when he gets into trouble. Then he is playing the other GM's games.

by china bob on Dec 10, 2004 3:19 AM PST up reply actions

Exactly!

by OaklandSi on Dec 10, 2004 3:46 AM PST up reply actions

Good one

Smart post, CB. I like it.

by Reg on Dec 10, 2004 5:56 AM PST up reply actions

I feel better about this...

I knew it was too soon for Beane to pull the trigger. Too early and the players wee just a little iffy.

I don't want Huddy to go, like most of the people here but if he does we should get an AWESOME package for him.

It's also been a fast news-day today. I was writing a post extolling the virtues of cheap margaritas at Pablito's and a new Huddy/Cards thread appears. Again, it's going to be a fun weekend for Billy Beane and for those of us on AN.

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs

by secret ASian man on Dec 9, 2004 1:55 PM PST reply actions

Nice to see Oakland in a nice drivers seat

Come on Billy. We know Oakland never has much money to spend. Oakland always has young kids and rarely veterans to trade in a big deal.

This might be Oakland opportunity to get a great-amazing deal. I think that Oakland will hit the JACKPOT in any deal involving Huddy!!!

GO A's GO

by CDN Athletics Fan on Dec 9, 2004 1:56 PM PST reply actions

Rick Ankiel?

That's a joke, right?

Is it April Fool's Day?

by jrbh on Dec 9, 2004 2:00 PM PST reply actions

damn, right ankiel

nope, i dont think so, kiki calero and dan haren? wtf? we already have someone like that, Justin Duschererer (whatever).

Ankiel would be the only salvageable piece that the Cardinals are offering, otherwise, their farm system just plain stinks.

by suggy on Dec 9, 2004 3:42 PM PST up reply actions

Rumors are wild things...

Remind me not to get too excited/depressed about all this...until something really happens. I know some folks thrive on all this...I love/hate it all at once. Repeat : Trust Billy Beane!

by LongTimeFan on Dec 9, 2004 2:42 PM PST reply actions

Ankiel / Haren

While I'd hate to see him go, I kinda like the players they're talking about. I actually LOVE that Ankiel might be included;he's been lights-out this winter, and maybe a change of scenery might help.

by catfish hunter on Dec 9, 2004 3:38 PM PST reply actions

are you absolutely insane???

rick ankiel CAN'T be the center piece to this trade!!! there's no "taking-a-flier" either. it must be a SURE THING, over the top, lights out, we all go home screaming YEEEEEEEEES!

rick ankiel...holy fuck.

it's OK to steal-just don't let billy see ya.

by bigelephant on Dec 9, 2004 3:56 PM PST up reply actions

Alright

Here we go: Three way trade between the A's, cardinals and braves.

A's receive: Marcus Giles, Rick Ankiel, Kiko Kalero

St Louis Receives: Tim Hudson, prospect

Atlanta Receives: Dan Haren, Reggie Sanders,

Beanetown Baby

by ohad on Dec 9, 2004 3:51 PM PST reply actions

Wow

Not even close. We're talking Tim Hudson here. The best W/L percentage in history! He would be the #1 starter on 95% of all baseball teams. Giles, Ankiel, Calero! Holy Cripes Batman--someone is about to screw Billy Beane....
How about Giles AND Drew AND prospects. How about Rolen? Pujols? Edmonds? (I know, I know, we can't afford THEM).
The Cardinals give up Ankiel, Calero, Haren, and Sanders for Hudson? That would be like us giving up Duchscherer, Rincon, Rheinecker and Hatteberg for Johann Santana. Hallucinatory.

by Napasteve on Dec 9, 2004 4:10 PM PST up reply actions

Drew

Drew's a free agent. Braves can't package him.

by tulanite on Dec 9, 2004 5:16 PM PST up reply actions

um

why reggie sanders? he's old. i think atlanta can get someone better

by ucla kid on Dec 9, 2004 6:30 PM PST up reply actions

R Sanders

is a sure ticket to the playoffs, hasn't he been in the playoffs like 6 years in a row with 5 different teams

When I look at it, I think if I'd been healthy, or this year, not a dumbass at the end of the season, we would have won so many more games---MM

by Satchmo22 on Dec 10, 2004 5:19 AM PST up reply actions

sense

This is what i'm talking about. This makes no sense. First of all, no way a team in need of pitching trades away three 25 man roster pitchers and a cheap 20-25 hr outfielder when they are short on cash and all three of those pitchers are still under three year minumum salaries. get serious people.

by grazilla on Dec 9, 2004 10:38 PM PST up reply actions

Yah. that sounds great

More unproven guys in the pen. Worked with L. Arthur.

Network Associates Stadium: Former home of the 'Fear Mecir' sign.

by dboysick on Dec 9, 2004 3:57 PM PST reply actions

This is insane

Seriously, when you count age, Hudson is the best pitcher in MLB right now. Hudson to the cards for Pujols and Edmonds or no deal. Braves for Giles, Andrew Jones, and JD Drew or no deal. Orioles for Tejada and Mora or no deal. Philles for Thome and Millwood or no deal.

All this talk about Huddy for a bad starter and a prospect for two is nuts. Stop it. I trust Billy, and I trust that he won't do anything that stupid. If he does end up doing a stupid Huddy for bad player and prospect trade like that, hopefully it's to the Orioles so at least I have a good start for picking a new team.

by RichardP on Dec 9, 2004 4:18 PM PST reply actions

best pitcher vs. best contract

Tim Hudson may be the best pitcher in baseball (debatable) but his contract is nowhere near the most valuable contract in baseball. He is locked up for one year at $6 million. If he were a free agent looking for a one year contract, he could probably get one year at $14 million. So the value of his contract is about $8 million to whatever team holds it.

by matthias on Dec 9, 2004 4:32 PM PST up reply actions

YES!

You nailed it. if this was the trading deadline then MAYBE i'd be considering some of this, but not now. Hudson is our best player BY FAR, so it is EXACTLY the same as the Twins giving up Santana, the Angels giving up Vlad, or the Cards giving up Pujols. we better get some STUDS if we lose my boy Huddy.

FUCK I hate the offseason!

by David Owen on Dec 9, 2004 4:40 PM PST up reply actions

You're insane . . .

. . . please tell me this post is a joke.

Pujols and Edmonds?

If this is not a joke, you have no basis in reality.

by Josh @ Athletics Nation on Dec 9, 2004 4:55 PM PST up reply actions

lay off the Crack Man

I like hudson but remember we are only giving them to a team for 1 year!!!!!!!!!!1

That is nothing compared with a top prospect.
If we get giles, and KIKo I would be estatic!!!!!!!!!!!!

by novaoakland on Dec 9, 2004 5:04 PM PST up reply actions

i'm gonna tell on you to blez

just kidding. but fuck kiko calero. and by the way, if i'm st. louis i KNOW that anyone i trade for the year before they hit the market is resigning. i'm not thinking of this as a one year thing at all. in fact i like it BETTER than if he was signed long term because now i get to negotiate the contract myself and make sure it works for us in the long run. i understand that pre-arbitration studs are the game's most valuable commodity, but pitching still wins, and kiko calero can still blow me.

by David Owen on Dec 9, 2004 5:34 PM PST up reply actions

Kiko is a stud.

Kiko will put up better numbers than anyone in the A's pen in 04'. You can bank on that.

by novaoakland on Dec 9, 2004 6:26 PM PST up reply actions

forgetabout it.

I wish but I doubt he will make any of those trades since they will only increase our payroll even more.
I look for him to get at least a 2nd baseman and/or bullpen help plus a high level pitching prospect, which will not supercede Hudson's `04 salary.

by sf drift king on Dec 9, 2004 6:51 PM PST up reply actions

Costs us less.

Giles 3-4, kiko .5, Ankiel .3

Hudson equals 6

by novaoakland on Dec 9, 2004 7:14 PM PST up reply actions

Wow.

for some reason I thought they cost more. It looks like the Braves are out of the picture according to the rumors. Stay tuned.

by sf drift king on Dec 10, 2004 3:57 PM PST up reply actions

Trades

Then I would say Hudson stays, because the first trade I think everyone in baseball agrees that Pujols is the best player in the game. The Cards are not going to deal him. Besides we can't afford him and Edmonds.

The second trade I doubt we could afford Jones but from what I hear the braves would like to unload his salary and would include him. JD is a freeagent so it is tough to include him.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 10, 2004 7:34 AM PST up reply actions

Hudson in red

Someone else has probably already said this, but I didn't read the other thread. Anyway, can you imagine how many games Hudson would win pitching for that St. Louis lineup? I put the over/under at 22.

by jmoney on Dec 9, 2004 5:02 PM PST reply actions

goddamn right jmoney -at least 22

it's OK to steal-just don't let billy see ya.

by bigelephant on Dec 9, 2004 5:53 PM PST up reply actions

Hudson in St Louis

Yeah....22 would be on the low end is my guess.
When this guy gets a few runs,he is dynomite.

by sommers on Dec 9, 2004 6:52 PM PST reply actions

I just hope he goes to a NL team.

I don't want him coming back here mad as hell.

by sf drift king on Dec 9, 2004 6:57 PM PST reply actions

ankiel

just to make it clear; i was in no way assuming / insinuating that i thought ankiel should be / would be the centerpiece, but as a part (a small part) of it, i'm intrigued.

still, if i had it my way, we'd keep Hudson, go with our pitching this year, and hope to find another bat w/ power, and win the big one in '05!

by catfish hunter on Dec 9, 2004 7:17 PM PST reply actions

now your talkin' catfish!!!

it's OK to steal-just don't let billy see ya.

by bigelephant on Dec 9, 2004 7:20 PM PST up reply actions

Just because kent is with the dodgers...

doesn't mean he's off the table. How about Kent and E. Jackson for Hudson? DePo only signed Kent to two years; more of a Beane-like term than a regular GM.

by nathan. on Dec 9, 2004 8:57 PM PST reply actions

Kent

I don't think you can turn around and trade a newly signed player. Something in the CBA prevents the sign-and-trade.

by grover on Dec 9, 2004 9:09 PM PST up reply actions

you may be right...

now that I think about it. But like you I can't put my finger on it. I think sign-and-trades happen in basketball but not baseball.

Oh well...just trying to help us think outside of the box.

by nathan. on Dec 9, 2004 10:11 PM PST up reply actions

Can't trade a FA signee until 6/15 ...

Relax alright don't try to strike everyone out. Strikeouts are boring besides that they're fascist. Throw some ground balls it's more democratic.

by devo on Dec 10, 2004 1:55 PM PST up reply actions

Kent??

he is just a turd, no thanks

When I look at it, I think if I'd been healthy, or this year, not a dumbass at the end of the season, we would have won so many more games---MM

by Satchmo22 on Dec 10, 2004 5:25 AM PST up reply actions

kent from dodgers

how about kent, werth and e.jackson for hudson, and if we have to, kielty:-)

grover - don't teams essentially do the same thing when they sign a player to a contract, and then, trade him? i can't think of specific trades, but i thought that was one way of getting a trade done..

still, i'd rather stick with our pitching staff, right now (and whoever joins it from our farm system!), try to get a bat, and WIN IT.

theo in-eptstein

hardy har har

by catfish hunter on Dec 9, 2004 9:35 PM PST reply actions

Dodgers Braves

Actually the first thing I thought of when I heard they signed Kent was that they were freeing up Cora to include in a trade, I doubt it would be Kent.

Just heard the Rumor ATL. offer is essentially Giles and a Rookie Meyer for Hudson. Maybe an ok trade the thing that puzzles me is are the reports on Ellis that bad? It seems like the major pieces in these trades are a 2nd baseman and if Ellis regains some arm strength seems like a waste.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 10, 2004 7:30 AM PST up reply actions

Giles+ Meyer are not enough

for Huddy, otherwise it would have already happened.

Beane does not NEED to trade Huddy, who is under contract for 2005. He might only do so if he's offered quite a bit more than Atlanta or Baltimore has so far...and that's ONLY IF the A's have decided that Huddy won't be one of the (maximum)2 of the Big 3 who will be signed to multiyear extensions.

by OaklandSi on Dec 10, 2004 9:19 AM PST up reply actions

1st realistic thread in a long time

I'm with you dude.....peace out bitches. Nice knowing you. Go Blue Jays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Tony on Dec 9, 2004 10:23 PM PST reply actions

Blue Jays???

They really suck, you know.

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs

by secret ASian man on Dec 9, 2004 10:27 PM PST up reply actions

And if I rooted for the yanks or Sox

I'd be another lame ass front runner.

by Tony on Dec 9, 2004 10:34 PM PST up reply actions

If your jumping off the boat why not Rays and O's

Rays:

Exciting young players like Huff, Crawford, Baldelli, Upton, etc.

O's:

The Miggy factor.

The Jays just suck.

"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." - Spaceballs

by secret ASian man on Dec 9, 2004 10:52 PM PST up reply actions

hudson to Stl

You guys can't be serious. Pujols and edmonds? C'mon. from what I hear here in Stl, it's either marquis and haren (most sense) or Gall, Barton (two promising prospects), Sanders and suppan. Personally, I think it will be Haren and Marquis. Haren, in time, will be a #1 starter, mark my words. Look at his K numbers from last year in AAA. Insane, given the amount of games he played before he came up. I hate to see him go, but would do it for hudson. regardless of what the deak is, you know he's gone, so why are you complaining about it?

by grazilla on Dec 9, 2004 10:28 PM PST reply actions

umm from stl.

give me pujols, otherwise these rumors are just speculation IF he is traded. how do we know? remember we were suppose to get Kent/Polanco last year. Then Beane surprised me with the Kendall trade.

by ucla kid on Dec 10, 2004 12:29 AM PST up reply actions

We don't know he's gone

They have to resign at least ONE of the big three. It would be the worst move in baseball history to have Hudson Mulder and Zito and let the ALL LEAVE. The worst. Hudson is the best of the three. So resign the damn guy and then we have at least two years with a great shot at a WS.

A year of Hudson is worth more than random joe blow prospect. Do you have any idea how many "top" prospects never pan out to be worth a damn thing?

No I don't think any of those trades I mentioned are going to happen. But it's going to take something of that magnitude for it to be worth losing Hudson.

by RichardP on Dec 9, 2004 11:33 PM PST reply actions

Let Huddy stay

I serious hope they don't trade anyone of the three, but if one has to go make it Zito. Huddy is way too valuable to the team. Not only is he the best pitcher, he's the clubhouse leader. When Miguel left, he filled the leadership void. If Huddy leaves, who's going to step-up?

Anyway, wasn't the Yankee's payment in luxury tax suppose to help poor teams? Why don't the A's just sign some relief help and trade a Catching prospect w/ Hatteburg for a good 2nd basemen. Don't trade the most valuable member of your team for "potentially" good players. The big three has said repeatly that they want to stay together. Let them have that chance.

by EatMoreChicken on Dec 10, 2004 12:33 AM PST up reply actions

Huddy

One name will be repeated in hushed tones and in whispers in every corner at the winter meetings this weekend: Tim Hudson.

"It seems like I'm a popular guy,'' the A's top starter said, adding with a laugh, "It must be my good looks.''

*http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/10/SPGUMA9UKE1.DTL*

by Sharon on Dec 10, 2004 4:25 AM PST reply actions

proven starter

i still feel we need a proven, but young starter in return. what about a deal with atlanta that brings us horacio ramirez? only 2 years in the league, so he's cheap for a while. atlanta wouldn't want to part with him, but in exchange for a coveted #1 guy like huddy, who knows? doubt we could get him AND giles though. maybe this is where another team jumping in could get us a second baseman. or instead of worrying about second base in this trade, we get ramirez, prospect (meyer? boy, that would make it lefty heavy), and juan cruz. filling a few needs and clearing money to fill some of the other needs. the money between giles and ramirez is equivalent NOW, but giles is arb-eligible soon, so ramirez is cheap longer.

just another thought. i can't imagine it would work out, but i'd be happier if beane found a way to turn huddy into a promising major-league-ready pitcher and fill some other holes too.

by Eric in Atlanta on Dec 10, 2004 4:28 AM PST reply actions

Beane won't let Huddy go for less

by OaklandSi on Dec 10, 2004 4:32 AM PST up reply actions

Thank You

He was once untouchable and unhittable. If he can recapture any part of his old self, he'd be better than Redman. Everyday is april Fools day to JRBH.

by Misfit on Dec 10, 2004 6:12 AM PST reply actions

I forgot to add

Constance.

He HATE Me Joe Morgan Rulz Go KG VS SAC

by Misfit on Dec 10, 2004 6:44 AM PST reply actions

argh

why kill our discussion? please, just let it go. hopefully we'll not have to hear any more of this.

by Eric in Atlanta on Dec 10, 2004 6:53 AM PST up reply actions

I hope so too.

by Misfit on Dec 10, 2004 7:06 AM PST up reply actions

For Hudson ...

I want Brandon Webb and Carlos Quentin ...
or
Dewon Brazelton/Scott Kazmir and Carl Crawford/Rocco Baldelli
something like these that yield a starting pitcher, an outfielder with a high ceiling (which I can't really see in Swisher), and save money in the near term.
A three way with Atlanta or St. Louis is fine, as fine as neither have the pieces to give us themselves.

by iceplant on Dec 10, 2004 11:03 AM PST reply actions