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Hudson Will Be Traded

The Chronicle's John Shea says it may happen.

I'm going to go on record right now and say that it will happen.  Tim Hudson will be traded prior to the 2005 season.

Hudson didn't help his cause by setting a deadline of March 1 for a new deal to be in place.

But the biggest telling sign isn't the speculation by Shea or anyone else, but this:

"All those rumors were flying around and it's a little concerning hearing all that and then not hearing anything from (GM) Billy (Beane)," Hudson said. "The thing is that I don't know where they stand, and I want to know if they're really committed to doing something, because my heart is still with Oakland. I want to make sure they're on the same page I am. I hope they are, but I'm a big boy. If they're really shopping me around, it would be nice to know."

Beane hasn't said word one to Hudson, either way.  That tells me that Billy is going to move Huddy.  I don't want to lose Hudson, but as I've mentioned before, he's way too valuable to lose for draft picks after the season.

But above all the myriad of reasons why this may be true, one is key to remember more than any other.  I think that the A's believe Rich Harden is going to be better than Hudson.  Maybe not immediately, but Harden is on the edge of greatness and his ascension to that level is what makes it even possible to consider trading a talent like Hudson.

So, I'm on record saying that Tim Hudson will not be wearing an A's uniform in 2005.  It'll be tragic to lose Huddy, but if Billy gets young, cheap talent in return which vastly improves our offense and a starting pitcher, it improves the long-term outlook for the green and gold (since it sounds like the A's cannot afford to keep Hudson after the next season).  Beane may back out at the last second because trading a talent like Hudson can come back to haunt you, but I don't think so.  Billy is going to do what's right for the long-term health of the franchise.  And with the budget restrictions Oakland has, spending the majority of your payroll on three players (Chavez, Kendall and possibly Hudson) doesn't make much sense.

Or maybe Billy trades Hudson to upgrade the offense, then signs one of the free agent starters out there like Millwood (coming off a down year - possible undervalued talent, but the concerns about his health are great) as stop-gap to some of younger pitchers in the organization like Windsor, Knox or someone else.

Regardless, it'll be a sad day when Hudson leaves.

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I cry often.
I can't help it.

So don't laugh at me if I cry when this happens, okay?

Someone give me something to dull this pain.

by Sharon on Dec 6, 2004 9:55 AM PST   0 recs

Here...
I'm just guessing.  I feel fairly confident about that guess, but regardless, it's just a guess.

Does that make you feel better?  :-)

by Blez on Dec 6, 2004 10:00 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I wish I felt better...
but at this point I think I believe it too.

My sadness has little to do with how I think the team will perform without him. It comes from realizing that once he's gone, rooting for him wil never be the same. I was always proud when he took the mound. Of course...I don't know him, and he isn't mine. Yet in some ways I do. And it certainly feels like he is.

He's "Huddy" to his teammates, and he's "Huddy" to me.

by Sharon on Dec 6, 2004 10:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

DAMN!
I've already started drinking, Sharon. Don't feel bad, I think about this every day and I end up crying myself to sleep (okay, it could be crying until I pass out). Damn it! I don't want Huddy traded (except maybe to a team in MO, that would be fun) and I don't have any good reasons why I don't want him traded. There is no logic or explanation for my feelings, just pure emotion. It's like when I donated a bunch of my clothes to charity, I couldn't give away all my old concert t-shirts. Some of them had holes and were a little small and I would never wear them again, but I still couldn't give them away or throw them out. It was the memories the shirts had. Huddy is my old AC DC t-shirts and damn it, I can't give him away!

This hurts. I'll FedEx you a care package full of drugs and heavy booze, Sharon.

by Jennifer on Dec 6, 2004 10:25 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Don't start offering to Fex-Ex
care packages to those in mourning, Jennifer.  Otherwise, you're going to wind up with one really big Fed-Ex bill.

by Blez on Dec 6, 2004 10:33 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Not to mention...
a shortage of booze and drugs for herself!

I, too, have a feeling Huddy is being dealt away this year, and it stings me too.  The only trade deal that I've heard bandied about here that eases the pain somewhat is the idea of netting Marcus Giles and seeing Huddy go to a NL team.

I was so happy about the Kendall trade, and now this...

Let's hope there's a silver lining in this raincloud.

by LD on Dec 6, 2004 10:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

There is never a shortage when...
you make it yourself.

And nothing will ever take away my pain if Huddy leaves (unless someone wants to get me Rich Harden for my birthday. I think that might work)! Huddy was the reason I started following the A's and it won't be the same without him.

by Jennifer on Dec 6, 2004 10:44 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Numbing the Pain
But didn't it hurt when Jason left? And when we lost Miggy? It's not just drugs and booze that ease the pain; winning does wonders, too, and nobody has won more games over the last five seasons than our boys. Keep the faith! We'll be fine. Lets toast Mr. Beane, just before commencing to passing out...

by ArakSOT on Dec 6, 2004 1:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

No,
it didn't hurt when we lost Jason and Miggy. Now, TLong, that hurt. =)

by Jennifer on Dec 6, 2004 2:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I guess I could...
use the Post Office. A co-worker of mine is um.... having an affair with the Postmaster and I get free stamps. I don't think I could get that many free stamps, though. Oh, the advantages of people without morals.

by Jennifer on Dec 6, 2004 10:39 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

We need an AN therapist.
Maybe more than just one.

I feel a "kumbaya" coming on...

by Sharon on Dec 6, 2004 10:40 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Stole some of my thunder pal
Seriously though, I don't see another way around the financial situation.

As one of the biggest opponents to the Kendall trade, I'd like to make it clear that the two moves (assuming Hudson gets traded) are not directly related. There are only two ways to view the situation:

1)Beane knew that he was going to trade Hudson before he went after Kendall

2)Beane seriously fucked up

Of the two I think option 1 is most likely. With Hudson on the block I think the Atlanta rumors just got more credible. If so than please let me reiterate that Jose Capellan should not be sought after. He's a shoulder injury waiting to happen, and it's going to happen soon.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 10:00 AM PST   0 recs

The one thing I do hope
is that Billy deals Huddy to a team from the NL (obviously not the Giants).  The last thing in the world I want to see is Hudson coming back to haunt the A's.  Send him to the Braves, Reds or Dodgers.

Just not any powerful AL team.  I don't care what they offer.

by Blez on Dec 6, 2004 10:03 AM PST   0 recs

Reds?
You're not still thinking about Kearns are you?

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 10:32 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Of course I am...
Kearns fits BB target profile.

by Blez on Dec 6, 2004 10:53 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Kearns hasn't been injury free in four years
That doesn't concern you? And I don't think they've got the pitching to fill the hole in the A's rotation. I'd expect a whole lot more than an injury plagued OF for Tim Hudson.

I know you've made the comparison between Durazo and Kearns in regards to their injury history vs their potential, but Durazo didn't cost nearly so much.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 11:01 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

I dunno
If they wanted to give us Kearns or Dunn, Brandon Claussen, and a prospect, I'd consider it.
S%#t! I been cut already?

by nothinlikethetown on Dec 6, 2004 11:10 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Claussen
He seems to have stalled a little bit. He got hammered in the Bigs and struggled in AAA. At 25 I'm tempted to put him a half-step behind Blanton in terms of readiness.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 11:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Trade Bait
I would see Claussen as a poker chip that Beane is getting ready for the trade deadline - We don't really need him right now, but most of the rest of the majors seems to be convinced that he's going to be a major league pitcher soon. As such, he could defintely bring in somebody at the deadline.

by jumperjh on Dec 6, 2004 2:12 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Claussen
The suggestion was for Claussen to come in and pitch for Oakland. If (when) Hudson moves there will be a hole in the starting five and I don't think Claussen is the guy to fill it.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 2:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Just a dose of perspective
Being a long-distance fan probably lets me keep my emotionaly distance from individual players a bit more, too.  But it's only about once or twice in a generation that a great player stays with one team for his whole career.  And we all know about the economics.  Beane's main job is to ensure a winning and profitable team (I think that ownership defines the limit of payroll to meet the latter goal and BB then sets about meeting the former).  Remember our 3-in-a-row Rookies of the Year?  Canseco -- traded.  McGwire -- traded.  Weiss -- traded.

The only other thing I'll say is that we've also taken advantage of the small-market-suffers system, too.  The only reason we got Damon and Dye was that the Royals knew they had to get rid of them before they left as FAs.  If everyone could keep all their young players, the Royals outfield would be Damon, Beltran, and Dye.

by Nick on Dec 6, 2004 10:05 AM PST   0 recs

as I've said before
Beane wants the 2005 A's to get into the postseason and, hopefully, go all the way. the a's best chance to win the division would be with 4 top starters. Trading Hudson would leave the A's with three top starters, an unproven rookie and a question mark.

Unless Beane can come up with a trade for Hudson that would bring a proven starter and a big bat, trading Hudson will weaken the A's, and possibly doom the chance to win the division this year.

by OaklandSi on Dec 6, 2004 10:05 AM PST   0 recs

If money is not the issue...
ie. the A's payroll will be around $65 million, than Beane can find a free agent arm to plug into the rotation with the savings from Hudson's contract.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 10:16 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

if money is THE issue
for THIS yr. than any trade for hudson will need to be well below the 7.5 mm hudson is due to make.
it's OK to steal-just don't let billy see ya.

by bigelephant on Dec 6, 2004 10:21 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

i offered...
on grover's post on this issue. when i read the article i got the sinking feeling that it was beane's response to the hudson/agent "deadline date"...that being...start fuckin' packin' bud.

never mind can the a's afford to pay him in '06- '10. i think they can't afford him in '05!!!

personally, if this does come to pass, i think it's a sad day. not because "i love huddy" but because i think he gives us a chance to win EVERYTIME he pitches.

hope i'm wrong but.....  

it's OK to steal-just don't let billy see ya.

by bigelephant on Dec 6, 2004 10:13 AM PST   0 recs

BillyBoss Always Has A Plan
Don't think Mr. Beane doesn't have a long, thoughtout plan for Huddy. I'm sure in his secret chambers beneath the house that Al trashed, BB has cultivated several trade possibilities that will have all of us in AN going HOLYS**T!!!! Huddy is one of the top 5 pitchers in MLB right now, so his price will be steep. If no trade is possible, he helps us through July, and BB trades him to the NL for someone having a great year. Remember, the Red Sox traded Garciaparra mid-year and still did pretty well.

by Murph21 on Dec 6, 2004 10:14 AM PST   0 recs

Ditto
Much as I want to keep Huddy and have a run at the post season with the Big 3 and Kendall, I'm confident that BB won't let him go unless he has something even better for the team in mind, overall.

by Pepper on Dec 6, 2004 10:33 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Beane a master of surprises
Not too long ago we were arguing over whether the a's would sign Greg Zaun or charlie Johnson as catcher -- which Beane helped along with his comments about Zaun. Now look who's the a's catcher!

I still think a Hudson trade is 50-50, even with hudson's public comments and the A's predictably 'not pleased' reaction (I actually don't think Beane lets such stuff affect his calculations, and of course he knows what the A's payroll limit for 2005 will be).

by OaklandSi on Dec 6, 2004 10:18 AM PST   0 recs

Huddy
I hope he doesn't get traded, but if he does, I hope it's to the Mets or Philadelphia. That way he can come back to Oakland next year, but we wouldn't have to face him all the time.

On a side note, I had a dream a couple of nights ago where BB traded Hudson. I was really mad and I checked the newspaper as soon as I woke up just to make sure. I really hope it doesn't happen.

by kent on Dec 6, 2004 10:22 AM PST   0 recs

The long view
The reality of this day and age in baseball is that players rarely stick around with their first organization for an extended period.  Because the league is so starkly divided into financial haves and have nots, you basically end up with 4 categories of players:
  1. Good young players - most of these are with their first team, but others could have been traded after limited time with their first organization.  It's hard not to like these guys, and the A's lean heavily in this category.
  2. Good established players still with first team - this is a small group league wide, and the A's will never have more than 1 or maybe 2.  Even the Yankees only have a few (Jeter/Williams/Rivera), so that tells you something.
  3. Mercenaries - good players who needed to leave their first team to make their deserved dollars.  The A's will never have too many of these, because they're drastically overpriced.
  4. Has beens, never weres and never will bes - roster filler for the 4/5ths of MLB that's at least in part financially challenged.  The trick is to squeeze anything you can out of this group, catch lightning in a bottle, or otherwise get lucky.
Given this, what kind of team is the most enjoyable to root for?  I'd argue that it's a team like the A's, who have a greater percentage of players in the first category than just about anyone.

I guess what I'm saying is that good young players will keep being fed into the A's major league roster, so long as Billy keeps the machine churning.  Part of keeping that machine churning is to feed the machine with established players who are about to jump into a markedly higher salary class.  So, while it may hurt to lose a guy like Hudson in the near term, another gifted, likable, competitive player is coming down the pike, and the A's need that pipeline to keep pumping indefinitely.  It's their lifeblood, and their reason for being.

Feed the machine.  The machine is good.  The machine is perpetual contention.

by DickWilliams on Dec 6, 2004 10:52 AM PST   0 recs

Blez
You may be right, but I have an issue with one piece of your logic: they are going to trade Hudson because Harden is going to be better? Now, I agree that Harden has a higher ceiling, but why trade Hudson specifically, instead of Mulder or Zito? Don't give me the "left-handed" garbage either. It doesn't matter which hand a guy throws with, if he's better than the guy you are comparing him too. I have often said that if we gave Hudson a four year deal, the end of that would coincide exactly with the point at which Harden requires big money--saying his elbow doesn't explode, or anything (he threw a lot of pitches for a 22 year old last year). And another thing--there are no low-cost options on the FA market; Kris Benson just got $7.5 mil per. If we don't sign Hudson, I see no reason why we are going to be able to sign any of the Big 3.

Still, the fact that BB hasn't even spoken to him is a bad sign. I guess we'll find out this weekend. In the meantime, I'm going to go throw myself under a bus.

by jmoney on Dec 6, 2004 10:59 AM PST   0 recs

Forget RH vs LH
Hudson's under A's control for one year vs two years (if Oakland wants) for Mulder and Zito. We can argue all we want which pitcher is better, but no way can anyone say that one year of Hudson is better than two years of either lefty.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 11:04 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

We can argue it...
If we are actually going to sign one of them. Statements like 1 year vs 2 years tell me they're all walking.

by jmoney on Dec 6, 2004 11:11 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Then it's time to get your eyes checked
A statement like  "1 year vs 2" does not mean anything other than Hudson has only one more year on his contract while Mulder and Zito could have two more years. Those are just facts. I believe, even now, the A's will have the financial flexibility to sign AT LEAST one of the three. That is, they have the ability to fund one more 8 figure salary. They could end up spending that on a hitter, although I don't think that likely.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 11:32 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

My Eyes Checked?
Ok, so they have the money to sign AT LEAST one of the three? This is after you spent days be-moaning the money lost in the Jason Kendall trade, and you tell me that one year vs. two year is a big deal? Do you really think they'll let Hudson walk b/c he asked for $12 mil, and then sign an inferior guy for $11mil? You're not thinking out your arguments, and you're being a fucking asshole.

by jmoney on Dec 6, 2004 11:51 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Calm down
You asked why trade Hudson instead of Mulder or Zito this season. In terms of production in 2005 there probably won't be much difference. But if you've got two great players signed cheap why would you trade the guy you know you can control for two years instead of the guy you know you can control for only one?

I originally thought Oakland could sign two of their pitchers but Beane went out and got Kendall. Even with Kendall and Chavez on the books I still think the A's can sign one of their Big 3. They could still sign two if they make some other moves in 2006. You think I'm not thinking things through? I don't want Dotel and Durazo signed to multi-year deals because I think it prevents Oakland from signing Hudson for 2006. If Beane can find a way to move Kendall in 2007 it would free up money to sign Mulder or Zito when their contracts are through. And all this would only take a $5-10 million increase in payroll over the next two years.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 12:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Because...
we're guaranteed to have Mulder and Zito one more year.

That's it plain and simple.

It gives Billy an extra year to work with the budget.  And we were pretty successful with Hudson, Zito, Mulder, Lilly and Halama.  Harden, Zito, Mulder, Blanton and Duke or another free agent could be comparable if we significantly upgrade the offense.

It's not an ideal situation, but we'd still have a Big Three (assuming Mulder and Zito perform up to their standards - which is a big assumption).  Duke can be a solid number four starter and the fifth starter is important, but you don't need an ace there.  I just think they think Harden is just going to be just as good as Hudson.

by Blez on Dec 6, 2004 12:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Two years vs. One year
Sure Zito and Mulder are locked up for 2 years as opposed to Hudson who's locked up for just one more year, but are they worth the price we'd be paying them those two years? I dunno, but if Zito can't turn it around after nearly 2 years of mediocrity, I don't think I'd want to pay him 8 million in 2006. The same can be said of Mulder- can he be healthy AND focused AND rested for a full season ever again?

In 2003 Jermaine Dye was locked up for 2 more years, while Miggy was locked up for one more. Were people arguing that Dye was more valuable just because he was locked up for longer? No- because he wasn't worth what we were paying him. The same could happen to Zito and, to a lesser extent IMO, Mulder next year and beyond.

I'd rather trade Zito to make room for Hudson in 2006 and beyond.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 6, 2004 1:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

actually
Zito is probably the A's best big game pitcher, even during his off years. And he's very durable, having never missed a start.what is he, 27? I certainly don't want to give up on Zito.

by OaklandSi on Dec 6, 2004 1:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Zito
What good is durability if you're simply not a great pitcher? You're an innings eater, that's what. I hope Zito turns it around, but in 2004 he was just a Redman-esque workhorse. And at least Redman was nails on the road. I wouldn't pay 8 million for that kind of performance. And I didn't see anything to suggest he was turning it around at the end of the season; his ERA in September was 4.54. Look it up on yahoo.com.

As for his ability to pitch in big games, I clearly remember him giving up a three-run jack in the biggest game of his life a year ago or so. I guess the sample size is just too small to say either way. And of course you need to get to the playoffs first of all.

My preference is to keep all three for one final run in 2005. If Beane thinks it's too risky to invest that much money in Hudson past 2005, so be it. However, I don't think it's wise to bank on the assumption that Zito is going to be worth what he is paid from here on out. Hudson at 12 million might be more cost effective than Zito at 8 million.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 6, 2004 3:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

that three run homer
I was at that game. it was game 5 of the ALDS and Zito was pitching --very well-- on short rest. he should have been taken out an inning earlier, and before he gave up the homer to manny he was obviously running out of gas with those walks.

Sort of proves my point...

by OaklandSi on Dec 7, 2004 6:16 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Zito/Hudson/Mulder
I'd rather see Zito leave instead of Hudson, but Zito does not have the trade value that Hudson has. Nor does trading Zito necessarily mean you'll free up enough money to keep Hudson unless you move someone from the Dotel/Durazo/Byrnes group as well.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 1:47 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

OaktownTribesman
You got the nutshell of what I've been saying. Although, I do agree that Zito has most consistently put up the best playoff performances.

by jmoney on Dec 6, 2004 1:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I still say he gets traded mid season.
Reason:  Billy wants to be sure Blanton and the others are ready.  Now it may be that Mr. Beane sees a very good market this winter. In fact, he's already made reference to there being a lot of "restlessness"(or similiar word) out there.

In that case, you may be right Blez.  One thing for sure is that the A's realized some time ago that Hudson's probably not signable.  I also think that Mulder's always been the one they try and keep.  Look at how Billy stood by him during his September collapse?

As for Barry, he and Alyssa are headed for NY unless our financial situation gets better.  Getting to the World Series could do that.

At least the A's don't have to play in the Holiday Bowl!

by Rob on Dec 6, 2004 11:16 AM PST   0 recs

Ouch!
"At least the A's don't have to play in the Holiday Bowl!"

Oh, the pain, the pain . . .

by Pepper on Dec 6, 2004 11:29 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

hey, it could be worse....
they could be going to the friggin' Sun Bowl, like ASU. I'm sorry, Cal got the Deliverance treatment...just completely hosed.

okay, back to hardball...i will reserve judgment until after the owners' meetings and (I think it's) tomorrow's deadline regarding compensation for free agents. my gut tells me this is different from the Tejada negotiations....i think the A's will make a legitimate run at resigning Huddy. Just too good to let go.

I *spit* on the Rally Monkey!

by bakedzito on Dec 6, 2004 4:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

...In the darkness the Gambler he broke even
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep
You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sitting at the table
There'll be time enough for counting when the dealing's done
2nd favorite team: WHOEVER IS PLAYING THE GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by ConcordFanSince1968 on Dec 6, 2004 11:56 AM PST   0 recs

HUDSON WON'T be traded
I will go on the record with a prediction he is not traded (unless A's are out of it at break).

Hudson has got to be concerned about Zito and Mulders less than stellar 04's and as such no trade.

by novaoakland on Dec 6, 2004 11:57 AM PST   0 recs

Second that
Huddy is going nowhere.  He is one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball and makes pennies in comparison.  Beane doesnt finish the roster until July.  Huddy is on it until at least then.  If Anaheim signs Beltran and pulls away early, then we swap him, but if we go down to the wire, Huddy will be pitching.

We talk about financial realities, and one fo them is that we have a Johnson-esque effect, for a Kris Benson contract.  Actually, less than that.  That is a True Oakland player-better than the money would indicate.  

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Dec 6, 2004 12:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I agreee with you
Only an absolutely monster deal that would be stupid for the other team(s), and that would give the A's both a proven quality starter AND a big bat, might tempt Billy. The A's need 4 top starters -- which they already have -- because they don't have the money to buy 2-3 big bats, unlike Anaheim, NY or Boston.

by OaklandSi on Dec 6, 2004 1:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

i dunno about huddy being traded
remember when kendall joined the a's, billy talked about having kendall and hudson together, giving the a's two super tough guys (i think he called them mongooses?). now why would he say something like that if he was already planning on trading huddy? just wondering...

by guy incognito on Dec 6, 2004 12:25 PM PST   0 recs

You guys
Don't take this the wrong way. I know Huddy is better than zito and mulder. Consistency is part of being a great pitcher. But look at it. Zito has had the best 1 season of any of them in his Cy Young year. We know what he can do, and last year towards the end he showed signs of coming back to that. You criticize his 03' season, but cmon. The only reason to criticize is because he wasn't AS GOOD as 02'. But a 14-12 record with a 3.30 is a really good year. He had 13 un-earned runs, and he had his fair share of blown oppurtunities (not by foulke, by bullpen). He could have had 17 wins. Plus, run support clearly was not at any sort of high. If you don't look at the ERA for a minute from last year, you find a pretty good pitcher.  His walks were down, K's were up by a lot from 03'. His major problem last year was Home runs. Normally, with his decreased walks and increased strikeouts, it wouldnt have been as big a deal. But he gave up 216 hits, 30 more than his previous career high. He was giving up more 2 and 3 run home runs, and was not locating his fastball. I fully expect him to bounce back and do what we know he can do. NO INJURIES!!! Say it aloud, record it, and play it again. Injury free.

Mulder. Take away last year, and you have Mulder, when healthy one of the best pitchers in the game. he goes into stretches of total domination. Aside from last year he had never had any of these breakdowns, and understandably. I mean when one of your Partners is pitching bad, trying to find himself, and the other is injured, its all on you. Never had that before. Expect him to fully bounce back too. He has had injuries, but a good sign was that he did not have anything last year, a full year. He is a special pitcher, and definitley a "gamble" worth keeping when you have him for 2 more years under his true value.

Than Hudson. One year left, give the impression he doesn't want to say. Is gonna make much more than we can provide, has more value. Most logical choice to trade. Plus he has a special case of Obliquenitis.

H

Beanetown Baby

by ohad on Dec 6, 2004 12:27 PM PST   0 recs

Trading 2 yr vs 1 yr contracts
A guy signed for less than his market value for two years is worth more to the A's than a guy signed for less than his market value for one year.

But the guy signed for two years is also worth more to a potential trading partner. In other words, he will bring a lot more in return. The only question is will some other GM offer a deal which Beane thinks is a net improvement for the team. That could happen with any player.

So there is no way you can just say it's better to trade one or the other. Except in one case: if you know you're only going to be competitive in one of the two upcoming years and don't care about the other year. If the A's decided to compete in 2004 and rebuild in 2005, they'd trade Mulder or Zito to get some superstars for one year. If they decided to rebuild in 2004 and compete in 2005, they'd trade Hudson for young prospects.

But that's not the A's style. Their stated goal is to be competitive every season. That means players with short or long term contracts are equally tradeable.

by matthias on Dec 6, 2004 12:32 PM PST   0 recs

But you...
also have to take into account the potential returns on a trade.  Hudson would bring back more in a deal that Mulder or Zito in my opinion.  Zito has been inconsistent since 2002 and Mulder collapsed last year.  Hudson didn't pitch well coming down the stretch either, but to me, people would pay handsomely for Hudson.  Especially a bigger market team (being in the south would help, I'm guessing) that would have a good chance at resigning him.

But this is just an opinion.  Only Billy truly knows what is available out there for these pitchers.

by Blez on Dec 6, 2004 12:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Zito
How was he inconsistent in 03'? I Know about last year, but after his Cy young year he followed it up with a clearly underrated year, simply because it was not as good as the last. Hvae faith in him, hes gonna coe back strong.
Beanetown Baby

by ohad on Dec 6, 2004 10:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

No one's untouchable
Beane is not interested in trading Hudson because he fears a drop in production, he's doing it for financial flexibility. Good, cheap pitching is hard to find, and after this season Hudson will no longer be cheap. It can be argued that Mulder and Zito will still be bargains if they're option years are picked up in 2006. But more importantly, after Blanton the A's are looking at a two year gap before they can expect anymore starting pitchers to advance to the big leagues. Knox and Sullivan might be a pair of sleepers, but Knox hasn't pitched above low-A ball and Sullivan struggled in Modesto. Beane is going to want the two year window that Mulder and Zito can provide to determine how much pitching he has in the pipeline.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 12:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

And if he's traded?
Hasn't the strike taught us anything? These guys are business men and when the seasons over we don't take them home with us. Billy will figure out what is the best deal and make it and until then let's look forward to spring training and the 2005 season when we finally win it all. It will all be fine! And I am a therapist. Seriously. Mitch who bleeds green and gold, not the players who wear it.
GO A's!

by mitche82865 on Dec 6, 2004 12:48 PM PST   0 recs

Marcus Giles is not enough
This heavy reaction to Jon Shea's "story" is just something to help us get through one more day of the offseason.  The fact is that Billy will (as matthias said above) trade any current Athletic for any other player if he thinks the deal is a net improvement for the team.  

Man, I didn't realize Hudson was such a ladies' man!  This little rumor created quite an uproar! I would miss Huddy myself, but it wouldn't trouble me as much as this whole BALCO thing has.  And the pain would be eased if they got a ton of major-league talent in return.  Huddy has done less than Zito to hurt his value, and so while Giles + some minor leaguers would be a fair trade for Zito, the A's should demand more for Hudson, because he's worth more.

by rubin sierra on Dec 6, 2004 12:54 PM PST   0 recs

Enough
The only way the A's could get more from Atlanta would be to allow them the right to negotiate an extension before the trade happened. Giles is under team control for another 2-3 years and Meyer is their most advanced (and I think 1st or 2nd best) pitcher.

by grover on Dec 6, 2004 1:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Good point
Giles is enough in my opinion but I agree with you that any A's player could be traded at the right time if the right offer came up.

by novaoakland on Dec 6, 2004 1:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Huddy
Tim has been an A long enough to know how they work, far better than we know. He saw the Giambi thing up close, the losing of Tejada, Chavy's resigning. these guys played together and are on good terms - so where does Hudson get off with this crap? He knows exactly how deals go down in Oakland, why would he be suprised if they didn't treat him any different? Either his comments in the chron are strictly how agents/players do business or he hasn't been paying attention to the players around him. The cost of being an A's fan is watching the revolving door regarding the talent. I hope Hudson stays, but won't be at all suprised to see him go.

by DC in WC on Dec 6, 2004 1:07 PM PST   0 recs

you ask for the moon in return ...
and, if you get it, take it.  Otherwise, start the beginning of the year with him and evaluate at the trading deadline.  To me, Austin Kearns is not close to what BB would be asking in return.  Marcus Giles, maybe, but I doubt it.  How about Miguel Cabrera, though?  If you can pry someone like that away, it's see you later, Huddy.  Hudson's a stud, a great guy, all that, but the picture is the same from his side of the fence as it is from BB's.  It's business, and we're looking for a buyer in the NL (or an AL cellar-dweller).  I'm guessing the only way the A's offer anything to Hudson is if someone desperately wants Zito or Mulder instead.  Unlikely, but possible.  I would think BB would be shopping them all right now and dealing from a position of big-time strength.

by iceplant on Dec 6, 2004 1:10 PM PST   0 recs

No way
Miguel Cabrera is quite possibly the most valuable player in baseball when you take into account his production and age relative to his contract.  (Second on that list would be Rich Harden)  Also, young pitching is the Marlins' greatest strength.  They're not going to trade away their best position player to add more.  

P.S. By the way, I know you didn't say that this trade was likely to happen, you were just throwing it out there.  This wasn't a critique of your trade proposal as it was just a comment.  It has been mentioned on this site before and I felt like offering my two cents.  

S%#t! I been cut already?

by nothinlikethetown on Dec 6, 2004 1:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Production vs. Potential
I'd say that Cabrera and Harden are 2 & 3, simply because Pujols hasn't even hit his prime yet, which is a scary thought considering how well he has played to date

by jumperjh on Dec 6, 2004 2:18 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Pujols
could actually be harder to trade because not too many teams can take on a long term 9 figure contract.
Today's broadcast is brought to you by..........Christ, I can't find it. The hell with it.

by nothinlikethetown on Dec 6, 2004 2:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

bulk
Pujols is pretty muscle-bound, though ... if you know what I mean, and I think you do.  

by rubin sierra on Dec 6, 2004 4:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Could we not start this please
I really would like to go through my day without reading any more unfounded accusations of players juicing just because they hit 40 bombs.  Maybe Adrian Beltre is too.  Maybe Adam Dunn's been injecting for years.  However, there's no evidence other than their size and power numbers that they have.  Give these guys a break.  Let them enjoy their success.  They haven't done anyhing to deserve otherwise.
Today's broadcast is brought to you by..........Christ, I can't find it. The hell with it.

by nothinlikethetown on Dec 6, 2004 4:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

is it the big three or the system?
In deciding whether to trade one of the big 3, I'm sure Beane thinks about things like this:

Are the big 3 really that special, or is it the A's system that is special?

Is it a better investment to keep pitchers only for their first 6-7 years?

Would it be better to trade Hudson and make a surprise run at Pedro Martinez or Randy Johnson?

My gut feeling is that the A's will offer Hudson to a 4 year extension for 44 million  If he won't take that, they'll trade him in a deal for Randy Johnson plus cash plus prospects.

by dylan on Dec 6, 2004 1:41 PM PST   0 recs

i read the article again
and i think he's gone.
i think beane sold the farm by trading for kendall and the offensive potential and by doing so put hudson on the block. kendall's contract will approx. take up about 15-20 % of the payroll and now beane has to make the cut.
beane does not directly come out and state this because that of course puts him in a negative bargainning position.
i believe hudson wants to stay and would sign a "hometown discount". but the die is cast. i don't think the a's could afford hudson this year at 7.5 m. personally, i'd much rather trade zito.
beane is a gambler and he is rolling the dice kendall-for-hudson. redman and rhodes their contracts  were just side players in the drama- basically mistakes beane was able to discard.  
i'm not expecting much more than blue chip prospects and maybe a serviable major leaguer.

 

it's OK to steal-just don't let billy see ya.

by bigelephant on