Athletics Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: RSL Soapbox for Real Salt Lake Fans!

Thinking WAY outside the box

What if Beane is downsizing the rotation?

Star-divide

I'm really stunned by the Mulder trade.  Not angry, not hurt, just completely surprised.  When I logged on it was about the last thing I thought I'd read.

I fully admit now that I probably have no idea what Beane is cooking up.  But given that the unbelievable has already taken place over the last few days, I'm going to float some irresponsible speculation, because it's more likely to be true than anything reasonable.

We've all been discussing the new Moneyball market inefficiency scheme.  And it's obvious that the market for starting pitching is just exploding.  I think Beane realizes that it's virtually impossible for the A's to compete in the open market for even decent starters in today's environment.

So here's the speculation: what if trading 2 of the Big 3, acquiring a bullpen full of relievers, and talking up Street and Garcia means that the A's are planning on converting to a 4-man rotation next year?  Here would be the justifications:

  1. As Earl Weaver said, it's easier to find 4 good pitchers than to find 5.  It's also a hell of a lot cheaper.  You cut the cost of your rotation by probably 12-15% of the starters' payroll in one fell swoop.
  2. The A's now have a lot of talented relievers:  Cruz, Calero, Dotel (for now), Street and Garcia waiting in the wings, Duke for long relief.  There's speculation that they'll move Byrnes and Bradford to SD for Payton and Otsuka.  That's a hell of a lot of potential quality bullpen innings.
  3. The 5th starter is useless in the postseason.  It's very hard for a limited budget team to invest precious resources in a player who plays an important role during the regular season and then becomes totally irrelevant in the postseason.
  4.  The 4-man requires healthy starters -- and guess what Beane has done:  he's traded the two guys who've been hurt every year and kept the one guy, Zito, who's been healthy.  One way to keep the starters healthy, of course, is to give them somewhat shorter outings.  Last year's bullpen was completely incapable of giving that kind of support to the starters.  The 2005 and 2006 bullpen is shaping up to be a different story.
  5.  Now, I'm really reaching here, but Beane might also be seeing the BALCO revelations as a watershed in how baseball is played.  If you assume that (a) a pretty significant number of hitters are bulking up with steroids, and (b) a new testing regime will significantly reduce the number of players who use steroids, then (c) we might be on the verge of an end to the Dinger Era.  And the more we return to lighter hitting lineups, the less stress a starter faces in each start.  One of the reasons that pitchers used to be able to throw 300 innings a season was that hitters weren't as good (and ballparks were bigger, and bats were heavier, but I'll leave that for a different discussion).  Even when you were facing, say, the 1983 AL West Champion White Sox, who won the division by 20 games, you got to face the Jerry Dybzinski-Vance Law-Mike Squires-Julio Cruz part of the order (I checked, those guys were starters at their positions), and that didn't exactly make your starter work his hardest.  And the White Sox led the Major Leagues in runs scored that year.  These days, everyone hits homers and pitchers always have to bear down.  Beane might see this beginning to change, thus lightening the burden on the starters and making the 4-man a realistic plan again.  It also might explain our suspicious lack of a 40-HR guy in the lineup...
So there you have it.  I freely admit that I have absolutely no hard evidence that Beane is planning this.  But at this point why should I assume that Beane is doing anything based on conventional wisdom?  I think Beane may well be planning on giving Harden and Zito 40 starts each this season -- that's half of our games started by Cy Young and Cy Old -- and filling out the other 82 with some combination of Blanton, Meyer, and Haren.  Limit the CGs, keep them below 275 innings, and see how it works out.
Poll
Will the A's use a 4-man rotation next year?
Quite possible -- desperate times call for desperate measures.
8 votes
Oh, so THAT'S what Beane is up to!
2 votes
Finally, the 4-man is back! Harden and Zito and 2 days of meat-o!
4 votes
What are you smoking, Nick, and can I have some?
21 votes
Could be -- who the hell knows at this point?
27 votes

62 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 9 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

yeah that works!!!
   we could trade for a reliable veteran and have a strong starting 3 and let blanton calero, and meyer duke it out for forth. It gives us one of the best damn bullpens in the country.

by everythinguknowiswrong on Dec 18, 2004 6:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

clever thinking
i enjoy your post and think you may be onto something here....however, do you really think our bullpen has the depth to cover a 4 man rotation?

i'm just haunted by all the blown saves of last season, and it's scary to think of the bullpen pitching so many innings...

however, considering that Billy Beane has converted to a younger rotation, it's quite possible that your theory will pan out...

by high street on Dec 18, 2004 6:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Very interesting
Nick, excellent hypothesis. Very well reasoned and well expressed.

Just off the top of my head, my first reaction (aside from the identical just-logged-on-and-WTF?!? initial reaction you had) is that one of the stronger theories about impact of innings/pitches thrown is that high-stress pitches (i.e., those pitches that are thrown in high-stress situations, especially late in a ballgame after the pitcher has already thrown 75 or so pitches) are more damaging in the medium and long-term.

Obviously, I don't have the numbers to run, but I would hazard a guess that the no. 1 guy on the A's the last two years in such high-stress pitches would be ... Zito. Lots of pitches thrown. Lots of baserunners, especially the second and third time through the batting order.

Not necessarily the guy you'd build a 4-man rotation around, I would think.

Now, I do think that (and this is presuming we even hang onto Zito; at this point, who knows) that if there was one of the Three to hang onto long-term, it's Zito. He's healthier than Mulder and Huddy, he's probably a better natural athlete, he's got a much smoother and lower-impact delivery, and he's (all "head case" talk aside) more even-keeled and psychologically prepared to take care of himself over a longer career.

But that's for another thread. Meanwhile, I gotta think about your idea some more.

by monkeyball on Dec 18, 2004 6:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Zito stays
Probably because he's got the lowest trade value at this point. I'm not saying he's the weaker pitcher, but the offers for him must not have been to Beane's liking.

Of course, the day's not done yet.

by grover on Dec 18, 2004 6:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

100% agree on 4-man rotation
While I don't think that the 4-man rotation idea has been behind the Hudson and Mulder trades, I think it's only a matter of time before teams go back to the 4-man rotation. Some data posted by someone on AN a few weeks back showed that there's no greater risk of injury from the 4-man rotation or any dropoff in performance. The main risk to pitchers is when they throw 120 pitches in a game (or around there). Closely watched pitch counts, which already happens, would solve this problem. Most times when starters get complete games these days is when the game is already out of reach, such as in 9-1, 10-0 games. Sometimes innovation means going back to the way things used to be done. So perhaps the A's will be the first to go back to the 4-man rotation.

by SA on Dec 18, 2004 7:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

My one question is...
If the 4-man's the case, is it really smart to do it with the fact that we're likely starting at least 1 second-year and a rookie? Since younger pitchers seem to throw fewer pitches, would the increased wear (even with strict pitch counts) wear out their arms?

by Trocmagic on Dec 18, 2004 7:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I was just thinking about that
In a way, last year would have been the time to give this a shot -- talented young pitchers with experience, just tell them they each get another 5 or 6 starts a year.  Wouldn't they think, "Yeah, I get the ball more often and I'm more likely to win 20!  Where do I sign up?"  This would have meant never trying to replace Lilly with Redman.

On the other hand, I'm not sure there's evidence that the 4 man, per se, is more dangerous than the 5 man.  The key is bullpen support, which was completely absent last year and looks like it'll be a strength this year.  Macha and Young could say to Meyer and Blanton and Haren, "Look, just give me 105 pitches, 6 good innings, and the pen will take it from there."  I don't think that's too much pressure to put on young pitchers.

by Nick on Dec 18, 2004 8:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

4-man rotation was an AN topic in early November
I was intrigued by it then, and even more so now.
thanks for bringing it up again, it's particularly interesting after losing two of our big 3 in just a couple of days.

by OaklandSi on Dec 18, 2004 8:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember Billy Ball?
Under the first Billy?

Very interesting post.  I remember the comments twenty years ago when Billy Martin overlaoded some young arms to gain big success for the A's, and evryone harped on how it hurt their careers.

Shoot!  If they're only going to be with you 4-5 years, why not use them up?  Even if they start to show signs of wear and tear, they still have significant value -- that's been shown clearly in the past few days.

Just a thought.....

by dingerpower on Dec 18, 2004 11:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Oakland Athletics.

Community Guidelines ANcillary Terms
Start posting about the Athletics »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Me_at_att_park_small
Greener Grass, Episode 7: Transportation Proclamation
Depaulbluedemons_small
Community Prospect List #18
413niegoftl__sl500_aa280__small
A's Protect Carter, FDLS, Figueroa and Souza from Rule V
Countdown_small
Some things I am "coming around" on...
Imgp0089_editedagasin_small
DLD 11/17/09 - Nintendo 64 and a Nerd's top 10 Epic Movie Fights

Recent FanPosts

Me_at_att_park_small
Old McPherson is an A, e yi e yi yoooooooo
Bill_king_small
On Trading Catchers....
Depaulbluedemons_small
Community Prospect List #17
Small
A's ink 10 year deal with KTRB 860 am
Bill_king_small
Huston Street and the Blown Save

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

Tyler_at_maya_school_small Tyler Bleszinski

08-_the_author_small 67MARQUEZ

Baseball_small baseballgirl

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small Nico

As_kings_cal_small louismg

Editors

Countdown_small Taj Adib

Ziegler160px_small Flashfire

527918550406_0_bg_small notsellingjeans