The Lord of the Dance
Take two steps forward...pause, twirl, one step back. Now, side step and back.
Billy Beane has been dancing all over the Anaheim Marriott. He's dancing as deliberately as he can, waiting for serious partners to stabilize. Braves in. Braves out. Orioles in. Orioles out. Red Sox trying to cut in. Yankees standing behind the Red Sox. Yet Beane, whether feigned or not, has his attention focused on an old friend (DePo).
Meanwhile 400 miles north in the East Bay, AN sits and waits for word that any one of the Big Three pitchers has been traded, which will subsequently result in mass hary-cary. Hudson, Mulder and Zito have become the colorful bait dangling from the boat while Beane kicks back with a Corona, patiently waiting to see who pokes their head out of the water.
Billy is playing his own private game of up-the-ante through the press. No doubt that DePodesta wants Hudson, but Billy wants the most for his horse, regardless of who his friends are. I imagine that a big part of Beane's impetus has been to try and get the Braves involved again.
Beane badly wants Giles. And Billy usually gets want he wants. Eventually. He may not get Giles with this particular deal, but keep an eye on this development down the road. Especially if Hudson is traded and the A's struggle out of the gate. Schuerholz is a lot more likely to part with Giles for a pitcher like Mulder or Zito with two years on their deals as opposed to Hudson.
But back to the dance at hand.
Hudson is a chip, but he may not be turning out to be the precious chip Beane thought he was prior to the meetings. Yes, he has a .700 win percentage, but the fact that Billy is denying access to Hudson for contract negotiations could be hurting his position. The only teams that would pay that handsomely for one season of a pitcher of Hudson's caliber are teams that will be in contention for the World Series next year, such as the Red Sox, Yankees and Cardinals. The Red Sox and Yankees have nothing the A's want. And the Cardinals may have pitching to send to Oakland, but they don't have any bats to send the A's way.
I understand why Billy is denying access to Hudson for negotiations because then Huddy would dictate Beane's dance partner. We all know that Beane doesn't like to have his options limited.
So, where does that leave Billy? It would appear that only the Dodgers, Braves and possibly Orioles could offer enough to entice the A's into a deal.
Then again, that doesn't account for the three-way deal.
That's one crowded dance floor.
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by TroyNeelorBust on Dec 13, 2004 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not really a fan
Agree
by ogallalabob on Dec 13, 2004 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Beane
Though at this point I think he has targeted the player or players he would like to acquire and it is a matter of wether they can be obtained, the price and the number of teams neding to be involved in the trade, (giles for atl. makes sense, wilkenson for wash makes sense, I am not sure most of the other names I am hearing really make this tam better so i think they are just guesses Like LA I could see Jackson, but everyone else mentioned is a mere throw in, just not seeing it.
TRADE RUMORS MIGHT BE HOGWASH
by DC in WC on Dec 13, 2004 10:37 AM PST reply actions
Does Billy engage in any thrill sports?
I'm just wondering if Billy is a thrill-seeker at heart and is throwing scenarios at his fellow GMs just to watch them squirm and get his heart racing?
The fact that Billy can't stomach watching his team play sometimes should discount the "thrill-seeker" label. But unlike watching a game, Billy's in charge now.
Did Billy ever reprimand DePo for taking his parking space at the Coliseum when they were together? Could some down to something as simple as that.
by Rob @ Athletics Nation on Dec 13, 2004 10:39 AM PST reply actions
Trading Hudson...
I know the justification for it -- leaving aside the money for a minute -- is that our farm system is really so productive that we can replace him, but if that's true, why not keep him and try and win the World Series next year? Who cares whether we get anything back for him if our farm system is so damned good? Isn't one year of winning the World Series better than three or four years of Marcus Giles or whoever (before they inevitably leave as a free agent)?
I Don't Know About throwing in the Towel...
I would be amazed if BB traded Hudson for bullpen help. I don't care how many guys we get, I don't think they'd add up to his talent. The trade would be looked upon as wasteful. If we consider Hudson to be a marquee player then there are only a few players who would fit that mold. Giles is one of them.Nevertheless, I don't think our 2b situation is going to keep us from the WS, but pitching would. Wouldn't we keep Hudson for a year let him go and take a WS win? Absolutely!
Absolutely, we would ...
Sure, we could win the WS this year - any team that is good enough to get to the playoffs (and the A's will be, with or without Huddy) can - but our best chance at actually winning it all is by retooling and making sure that when our offense and 'pen are peaking, our rotation still has what it needs to get it done.
2001 and 2002 our team peaked, I believe it will peak again in 2006-2008.
Trade
WS
our 2b situation may not keep us from the series but the combimation of our outfield, 2b and bench sure might. We have a below average offense, above average starters and question marks all over the bullpen. I think Beane is exploring all options as far as improving the other areas and to lesson the fall of the big 3 eventually leaving.
If Hudson goes
by Pepper on Dec 13, 2004 12:40 PM PST reply actions
Hudson is so hard to move
So please, if Beane can move him for a Giles (which Bobby Cox is saying HELL no) and a prospect, the A's got a good trade.
re: Hudson's value
Most dominating start? At boston last year, where he made groundout after groundout. He came into the league as a 94+ FB/hard sink Kevin Brown type. Then he learned how to "pitch" instead of throwing. Which means, in pitching coach jargon, he lost a few miles--he doesn't go for the K and makes more movement instead. Ok, that is great and all, but as your September/October ace? Putting the balls behind your defense to make plays? Um, that is why dominant October starters are power pitchers because they rely more on themselves, not ballpark factors, or the range factor of your 3rd basemen.
I want my pitchers to control the game by striking them out and not having a chance, not by letting them make contact and hit the ball down.
by suggy on Dec 13, 2004 12:44 PM PST reply actions
Power doesn't matter
Greg Maddox
Tom Glavine
Orel Hershiser
Andy Pettite
I could go on.
BTW, who are these 12 pitchers you'd take over Hudson and are any of them not yet eligible for social security?
by nothinlikethetown on Dec 13, 2004 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Pitchers I'd take over Huddy *
Definitely
Santana
Probably
Peevy
Zambrano
Harden
I'd think about it
Sheets
Oswalt
Webb
I wouldn't take half those guys
I would take:
Santana
Prior
Big Unit
I'd think about:
Wood
Harden
Schilling
All other suggestions are asinine. Hudson is one of the top 10 pitchers in MLB. Is he as good as Pedro was four years ago? No. But neither is anybody else in the history of baseball. Give credit where credit's due.
nope, that's it ... sorry ... he'll have to
Maddox
by nothinlikethetown on Dec 13, 2004 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
name the 12
Just wondering?
Game 5/7 Starters over Huddy
Pedro Martinez
Roy Oswalt
Roger Clemens
Jason Schmidt
Randy Johnson
Mark Prior
Kerry Wood
Carlos Zambrano
Josh Beckett
Johan Santana
Ben Sheets
by Colorado Fan on Dec 13, 2004 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
Um.....???????????
??? to you as well
by Patrick on Dec 13, 2004 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
If I had one game to win...
by Colorado Fan on Dec 13, 2004 7:49 PM PST up reply actions
OK true he has not won the game five
Winning %
his win% would be much higher if it weren't for all the blown saves.
by sf drift king on Dec 13, 2004 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
Marcus Giles = holy grail?
It would be even more depressing if the A's pulled the trigger on a deal that netted them even less. You'd think, "Billy's too smart for that," but I'm afraid he's such a junky for action in the market that the A's might give up Huddy for assorted crap. Bottom line, Giles is no Rogers Hornsby, but he's the only rumor mentioned thus far that's even a little bit palatable.
Which brings me to another question: if the A's do go for a second-baseman, do they then trade Ellis, and what could he net them on the open market?
Ellis
Billy Beane sighting
by duende5000 on Dec 13, 2004 1:22 PM PST reply actions
and oh yeah
by duende5000 on Dec 13, 2004 1:26 PM PST reply actions
Beane should work on Philadelphia
by Sam Dracula on Dec 13, 2004 2:56 PM PST reply actions
Madson/Utley
The upside to the less-than-expected offers for Huddy are that it suggests his market value is less than previously thought (probably due to 2 years in a row of missed starts, and the mysteriousness--and hence "difficult to solve" nature--of the injury). The less of a discrepency between Beane's available $$ and Hudson's market value, the more likely Beane could resign Hudson if that became his goal.
You're right
by Sam Dracula on Dec 14, 2004 9:19 AM PST up reply actions
Vazquez
Sure, Vazquez is more money, but at $12M/year he's still a bargain in this market. And unlike the A's, the Yankees can afford to take on other people's contracts in return.
re Vazquez' impact on possible Hudson deals
Vazquez, etc.
5 years, the first at 6.75? A team could build around that and it seems reasonable to think that could give the A's the return on their Heart and Soul the faithful think he's worth.
by Bosnian on Dec 13, 2004 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
Gammons on Dan Patrick - Huddy Trade
He also said something very odd: Depo offered Jackson and Choi to the Blue Jays for Lilly and Rios and then would have used those two as the centerpieces for the A's trade. Why would the A's want Lilly back when we traded him for Kielty (bag of scuffed ball)? Very odd to me and to be honest all these trade rumors are getting even odder. As of now, I'd take Baltimore, Atlanta (latest with Meyer, Fornasomething, and other), or LA (if they added Guzman or Brazo with Jackson).
PS: Look for Hatte to be traded this week.
Rios
by Patrick on Dec 14, 2004 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
Rumors
true
by Patrick on Dec 14, 2004 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
no production
by Patrick on Dec 14, 2004 8:02 PM PST up reply actions
Braves Starting Pitchers
by bambikiller on Dec 14, 2004 9:33 PM PST reply actions
I like the way you think
While you're at it how about swapping Dotel for Kolb?
Jumpin Jugular
by bambikiller on Dec 14, 2004 10:37 PM PST up reply actions
kielty?
by Patrick on Dec 14, 2004 10:51 PM PST up reply actions

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